Be Proactive
On the OPC Committee on Diaconal Ministries podcast, I hosted a panel discussion called “Real World Cases: Be Proactive”.
You can listen here.
Transcript
Bob Keys: Sometimes it— more is caught than taught, and we can teach all day, but when the children see the love and the ministry of the church and the deacons and the, and the people of the church, what a blessing to them to see and hear the gospel of Christ in word and deed. Connecting that word with the deed of Christ and the love of Christ is so important.
Tim Hopper: Welcome to the Reformed Deacon, a casual conversation with topics specifically designed to help local Reformed deacons. There are nearly 1,000 deacons in the OPC alone, so let’s take this opportunity to learn from and encourage one another. We’re so glad you could join us. Let’s jump into our next episode. Hi, my name is Tim Hopper, and I serve as a deacon at Shiloh OPC in Raleigh, North Carolina, and I’m a member of the OPC Committee on Diakonal Ministries. For this episode of The Reformed Deacon, I’m going to facilitate a discussion group we call Real World Cases. I’ll describe the case to our panel of deacons and we’ll discuss possible responses to each case. These are fictitious situations, but I think you’ll find them very realistic and feasible. I hope after listening you’ll come away with some suggestions for responding and following up when this or a situation like it should present itself at your church. With me today are three fellow deacons: Bob Keys, a deacon from Grace OPC in Columbus, Ohio.
Bob Keys: Good morning. It’s, uh, wonderful to be here.
Tim Hopper: Lynn Hunter, deacon from Harvest OPC in Wyoming, Michigan.
Lynn Hunter: Good morning, Tim. It’s great to be here.
Tim Hopper: And Daniel Laskaz, a deacon at Amaskag OPC in Manchester, New Hampshire.
Daniel Laskaz: Good morning. I’m glad to be here.
Tim Hopper: Welcome, brothers. It’s great to have you here with us. Let’s go ahead and jump in with our first case. This one is about a woman named Sally. On the way home from church, your wife starts to tell you about a woman at church, Sally, who just doesn’t seem right. She tells you Sally hasn’t been at the weekly women’s Bible study for months, probably since her husband died. She says she’s noticed that Sally doesn’t stay long after church and seems worried or preoccupied when she’s there. Your wife heard that Sally may have to move out of her house because she just can’t make ends meet financially. Several women have tried to reach out to her, but she’s distant and won’t share. Your wife thinks the deacons or elders may need to get involved. How would we start thinking about handling the case?
Bob Keys: I think here we have a real scriptural evidence of ways in which we should be helping. The Bible talks often about the orphan and the widow, the alien, the sojourner, the prisoner, sick— you know, widow is one of those. And, uh, this is a clear one that we needed to be involved with her immediately upon the death of her, of her husband. It didn’t We should have, we should have known about this. We should have been involved from the very start to encourage her, to help her, to walk with her through settling the estate and getting things in her name, working with her lawyer, uh, mowing her grass and taking care of her and, and finding out what her situation is regarding her house. This is not something that’s, uh, that’s, that’s unique.— after months, we should have been here on the day her husband died at the funeral encouraging her and blessing her, making sure she had other women beside her walking beside her and, and encouraging her along with the deacons and the elders. This is something that really is clear in scripture. This is where we walk with this lonely and unsure and, and financially not sure where she’s at, and we need to walk her through and help her mow the grass and help her, help her, uh, fix her, her toilet and do whatever else she needs, not having her husband anymore to take take care of those things. So these are some of the things that, uh, you know, just having that relationship with this widow is so important, so important, right, right from the very beginning that we, we go to the funeral. We need to be involved, uh, with all these things, including the grief experiences with other women that, that are widows that can help her alongside go through these things, which is so critical.
Lynn Hunter: So I would echo what Bob said. Um, we need to be proactive. Right from the start. But just in looking at our case here and realizing, oh, we did not— we weren’t proactive. She isn’t on our widows list. We would jump in, right? I would jump in right from the start. I would make that phone call. I wouldn’t wait for the elders, wouldn’t wait for the minister. I might give them a heads up and maybe even invite them to go along with me, but I would jump in early.
Tim Hopper: Here.
Lynn Hunter: This is a, a place where we need to, to start early. And if my wife tells me, hey, we’ve less— left this person behind, that’s a warning to me that says, hey, I’m not doing my job. I need to get involved sooner. And, uh, then also we would reach out to the other women and say, hey, uh, are you willing to visit with me? And some— that, that makes a world of difference when you can get the, uh, person to be comfortable with you but also with others in your church. And, uh, once, once you get that going, you’ll be surprised how fast you can get things moving. And then we can start working on those real-world needs. What is their financial, uh, uh, issues? Um, how, how can we as a church address them? Do we need other outside resources? And so we look at that big picture and then, and then we start, uh, echoing, uh, circling it and getting it going in the right place. But this is one, uh, would be a warning for us to say, hey, we need to relook at what we’re doing, re— relook at, hey, where’s our diaconate? Are we focusing on the right thing? As in people, not buildings or bucks, but people. That, that’s our real goal is focusing on the right thing, looking for those people that are falling through the cracks.
Tim Hopper: I think one aspect of this case that can be challenging is there seems to be, um, maybe a lack of trust. And something that I’ve learned over the years is sometimes that requires identifying someone who can work with you as a deacon, or, you know, even just as a church member, someone who knows this person and has their trust and who will help bridge that gap. If there’s someone you know that person’s close to, um, you know, maybe go with that person and sit down. But, uh, and even within, you know, if you, if your church blessed with multiple deacons, the way some people respond to, to some men is going to be different from others. And you need to, in a potentially precarious emotional situation, um, think about who’s really going to be trying to, to build that trust and, and break through a little bit. Because, because some just have particular gifts at doing that and are very good at— you know, even sometimes age can make a difference. If you have a deacon who’s, uh, 28 versus, you know, deacon who’s 70, and maybe it’s an older woman, she might respond better to the, to the older man or something. Um, you know, just to, to be— try to be thoughtful about that. But I think these are, are really good answers, and The biggest takeaway I had here is try to not get yourself in this situation, right? Be— you need to be proactive from the start with a woman like this, uh, or even a, you know, a man who’s been widowed, um, and be involved and know what’s going on as much as you can.
Daniel Laskaz: I agree with everything, uh, your, your brother said, uh, having let— left it to go that, that long. In, uh, my part of the world, at times, uh, there are people that are very open and there are people that are very private. And that’s why when there’s the private there and the privacy there, and so we try to be sensitive to that and try to get them to open up. And so that’s why, you know, having worked with the session to have a diaconal pastoral visit, because she’s, she’s already She’s not talking with the sisters that she’s used to, and we would, uh, for us, uh, in that area, we would, uh, go at it a little bit different in with the pastoral visit and then getting her to open. And we— and there are times when there are people that are very open and we’re right there.
Bob Keys: Sometimes the best people to help people like this would be another widow or widower. Sometimes they can really understand what Sally is going to need. They can also help us understand the needs that we may not understand very well. So talking to, to our widow might be best for the deacons. What did you face? How did you go through it? And how can we, you know, understand and best deal with Sally as we go through this as a diaconate with this lady? That oftentimes helps us understand if we haven’t gone through it, what we need to do and how we need to do it in a very tactful, loving, and gracious way. It, it can really give us wisdom that we need to have in these hard situations with this dear woman that’s lost her husband, that, uh, may lose her house. And again, we have to guard against this. We have to help her with at least keeping her from getting far behind her debts as well, on her mortgage. Uh, this is important. And certainly this is going to scare her. So this is— these are the kind of things we’ve got to do right from the start to make sure that she is moving into the church and not away from the church and, uh, showing her love and care that she certainly needs.
Tim Hopper: Very good. Let’s move on to the second case. Um, this is the Smith family. It’s Thanksgiving time and the deacons are preparing to provide turkey dinners to all the needy families at church. There’s an announcement in the bulletin asking for the names of families the congregation feels may be in need. As you and the deacons meet to discuss how much to purchase, one family name comes up a few times. It’s not a new name. You’ve known this family well, and as a diaconate have supplied them monetarily over the years. Sadly, their situation hasn’t changed, even though the elders and deacons have offered financial solutions many times.
Lynn Hunter: You go back one more time. It’s never a time to stop with any family. I’ve been in this situation more than once, and you just have to keep on persevering and realize that every time you have contact, you also get one more chance to teach the gospel. Because our call as deacons is not just helping physically and financially. My call as a deacon is also to bring the gospel. On a daily basis. And so if I get one more chance, I might touch a child in that family— not me, but God using me to touch that child in that family. And they might become, you know, that might be the, the one time where you make that impression so that they go on and make, profession of faith, realizing that, hey, I heard the gospel. Yeah, it’s a long road, but yet it’s, it’s a, it’s a fulfilling road. We get that opportunity to present one more time the gospel through that turkey.
Bob Keys: I think that’s so true. I was thinking about the children as well. I, I think, uh, sometimes it more is caught than taught, and we can teach all day, but when the children see The love and the ministry of the church and the deacons and the, and the people of the church— what a blessing to them to see and hear the Gospel of Christ in word and deed. Connecting that word with the deed of Christ and the love of Christ is so important for those children. And so I agree with you, Lynn, that is so important. Um, one more turkey isn’t a whole lot compared to, uh, to the Gospel of Christ in these kids’ heart and life. And I’m not talking— I also talk about the the, the father and the wife, but particularly the children. I, I totally agree with you, man. I think it’s so good. It’s usually not money that’s needed, uh, necessarily. I’m not saying you never give money, but oftentimes it’s a lot more about relationships and time and emotion, heart, that you— we give to our congregants. This is where the action’s at. So I, I, I’m not sure whether that meant, uh, they were giving them financial counseling which is really good, or just money, or what that meant. But I think that’s one thing we always have to, to realize is that it’s, it’s a, it’s a deep subject here in terms of how we really respond in counsel, in financial giving, and especially in terms of how we impact the family for the cause of Christ,
Tim Hopper: as Lynn had said. It’s easy, I think, to hear that they’ve been offered financial solutions many times and hear that negatively. But it is important for us to remember that there are sometimes legitimate situations that have long-term needs, even, even monetary needs, right? There are cases where we need to help over and over because, um, for whatever reason, a family isn’t able to, you know, provide for itself in entirety. And so just because you’ve helped before, Doesn’t mean that that has been, um, misused or unappreciated or, or whatever, but it, uh, it may be very legitimate that someone has a need that goes on for their
Bob Keys: whole life.
Daniel Laskaz: I do think that providing that and echo everything that all, all you brothers have said, that, uh, you give the turkey and there may be, uh, legitimate reason as that, uh, this case comes across as there’s a little sense of rolling of the eyes there because we hear that name before. And there may be a legitimate reason why it, it can’t— it comes across that way. But in a situation like that, you give it and you continue to work with them in the background on what those other solutions would be. Does he need— does he need a job? Sometimes for us, when we have an ongoing case and we discern that there may be a problem, we ask our invite them to see their, their budget, their checkbook, uh, where some of the priorities are. And, uh, right now we’re going through that with a young man, and our hearts are rejoiced because he’s really responding, and he just needed somebody to come alongside of him and to, to help him with that. And, uh, there are those, and also there’s those long-term reasons why some people do have, uh, legitimate, uh, long-term, uh, needs like that, and we need to come alongside of them either way.
Tim Hopper: Yeah, very good. I, I appreciate the, um, humility here and the desire to just persevere in, in helping, even when sometimes the road seems long and, and feels long. And I think with that, especially in providing food, you know, whether to someone in the church or if you have a walk-in case, or— what a great way to bless people just by providing them food, you know, a way that is, is very likely to be, misused or abused, but, but a way to bless. And so I, I think that’s a great type of ministry to have and giving me thought about whether we should do similar things here. Let’s move on to the next case. Joe is an older gentleman in your church. He’s quiet, polite, and very godly man. His wife died several years ago and he lives alone. He has grown children, but they live across the country. Recently you’ve noticed that Joe has been looking a bit disheveled, not his normal snappy self. He looks like he may be losing weight and just began to use a cane. You stop to talk to him about how he’s doing, but he immediately says he’s fine and tries to change the subject.
Bob Keys: Loneliness is one of the most evident things in our society, and it doesn’t preclude, uh, people in our church. Many, many, many people are, are lonely, and This is another big aspect of the diaconate. We need to show love and mercy to the lonely, and, uh, this man is a godly man. Um, Joe has served and been faithful for many years. Um, we need to encourage him with inviting and making sure that many people invite him over and, and have fun, food, and fellowship. Those three together, I think fun is the most important thing. Just have fun with him. Take him to a ballgame. Do something. He needs people. The worst thing we can do is not include him in the church. The best thing is to make sure he’s, he’s, uh, he’s got plenty of things to do with the body of Christ. And again, Uh, not hard. Our job is to know people in the church and get them connected, making sure that the families— especially the families, the, the with young children— invite him over to include him in their family. And then I, I have another idea. What about getting a ticket for him to go see his kids and make
Lynn Hunter: sure he’s there to see his kids? This again goes back to um, list. You know, I don’t know about other churches. I know Harvest— we— our diaconate has a list. We have a widows— well, basically, and anybody that’s in what we call our harps group, which is I think over 70, ends up on the diaconate list. He would be automatically put there, um, and he would be one of the people that gets reviewed every deacon’s meeting? Has somebody checked up on this gentleman? Sometimes we miss them, but we try to keep track, and that’s our job, is keeping track of the elderly. Um, I think this is— I don’t know about other churches again, but I know Harvest, uh, looking at our demographic, we’re becoming older, and this is one of our, our areas we’ve struggled in. How do we take care of these elderly people who don’t have family? And this is what— we have a committee working on this at Harvest, looking at what do we do, how— what is our duty toward them? I think Bob had some excellent ideas in, in getting this person involved, and I would echo Bob in, hey, can we get him a ticket? Or can we get a ticket for his family to come visit him so that they get that connection? It’s important we maintain that family connection, uh, Tim— uh, Paul talks about it in Timothy basically for the widows and the widows’ lists, but I think that provides— is echoed here with the widowers, but it’s also Um, one of the things is that Paul mentions is family, that the family should be taking care of them. Well, we can facilitate that family connection to make sure that they realize, oh, Dad’s getting a little older, what do we need to do, how can we help the church, that he is him. So that is one of our, our things, is to facilitate that family connection. Make sure that that isn’t broken.
Tim Hopper: We’re going to need to get that committee, uh, from Harvest on, on the podcast at some point to discuss that topic, because that’s, that’s an important topic. Our diaconate just, uh, just this past week started reading together, um, Brian DeYoung’s book, uh, Honoring the Elderly, um, Honoring the Elderly: A Christian’s Duty to Aging Parents. As we’ve seen, this is a need in our church, both as the congregation ages And we have so many people in the church caring for, for aging parents. You know, this case study doesn’t say, you know, are the children believers and what’s the situation, but you could also think about the flip side here of you’re in the church with these children, or one of the children, and thinking about their, their parent across the country. And we want to be ready to try to help and equip because that’s such a pressing need of our days as our whole population is aging, right? I mean, it’s— we’re going to see more and
Lynn Hunter: more of this. Yes, I would love to facilitate that and help. Uh, let’s talk about it as a, as
Bob Keys: a denominational diaconate. I think he also is going to need special help in, in things that as he gets older that he can’t do for himself, especially if he has his own house. Um, and I think we just being cognizant of his age, as you’ve— you guys have already said but really thinking what would he need? And then how can I use a trip over there to encourage him and bless him? And do I have a handyman in the, in the church that is good with people and would, would enjoy spending some time with our friend and brother Joe? So I think this is— these are the kind of things that we can think about and we can connect people that really can do the, the kind of work that is needed for all these people, but certainly Joe can use a— I’m sure a handyman to help come, uh, help him with the, with the things he needs in the house since he’s, uh, obviously getting older and,
Tim Hopper: and having those kind of needs.
Daniel Laskaz: Certainly, yes. And we make phone calls to some of our elderly and check up on them, and some of them do live with families. And I really appreciate what I’m hearing from different parts of, of the church We have some elderly, but we’re not dealing with those same dynamics, if you will. And but that gives me— gives us quite a bit of food for thought when we would come across them. So we deal with families, younger families in our midst, if you will. And so, but the widows, we do give them calls and we check up on them and see how we can
Tim Hopper: help them, how we can, how we can serve them. Very good. So I think two big takeaways. One is really, uh, as much as you’re able, try to fill— facilitate the family connection and, um, see children caring for their parents as they age. And also, uh, otherwise we just need to be present and know our people and have them in our homes and help them know that we’re there for them and ready to, to serve them. Well, let’s go on to our next case. A few Sundays have passed since you’ve seen Margie and Bill. They are not very involved in church life and they keep to themselves, but usually attend morning worship regularly. You call to see if they’re okay. Margie tells you that her husband Bill was in a car accident and is at the hospital in the ICU. Her voice sounds weak and raspy, but— and you suspect she’s been crying. She tells you they cannot afford for Bill to be in the hospital. Medicare will only cover a portion of the cost and the rest they will have to pay, and it could be months before he is released. Margie and Bill have no children and no other living family members that you know of.
Lynn Hunter: First act is I’m calling them brother
Bob Keys: and going to visit. Yeah, but, uh, it’s been too— it’s been, it’s been how long?
Lynn Hunter: It’s been weeks. Two weeks. Yes, two weeks.
Bob Keys: Where are the deacons? Where is the elders? Where— I mean, my lands. We didn’t
Lynn Hunter: know about this.
Bob Keys: Um, uh, well, again, they need— she needed encouragement and help from, from day one. As soon as we heard that she was in the hospital, we should have been there. We should have, uh, helped her in any way possible, um, through this hard thing. Hospital stays are tough, uh, and to be alone without your husband in the— while he’s in the hospital and, and going to the hospital alone These are hard things and, uh, you— the church just needs to be there right from the start. Right from the start.
Lynn Hunter: So important. Okay, so Harvest, they’re different in that we have over 600 to 700 people attending on a Sunday morning. So to miss a person for a couple weeks is not unusual. By the third week, I know I, I, I, I I know I’ve missed them, but even the second week I usually know I miss. But yeah, we can, we can miss people in a church of that size. So I’ll take a pass on that. But at the same time, I’m hoping that there are at least one other family in that church that knows this family and will have called me. But then once I find out, then it’s, uh, Everybody on deck and let’s get this thing handled. Let’s figure it out. And that goes back to, hey, what’s the Committee on Aging found out? What agencies do we already need to get in touch with? Who could— who can help us? And let’s get the prayer train going.
Bob Keys: I think financially is another big area where the deacons can certainly help significantly. Um, obviously Medicare will pay for 80% in, in normal cases. Here you’re talking about 20%, and the hospital will work with anyone, anyone, and especially those in, in need like it looks like that the, the Dukes are in. Um, I would suggest that the deacons go, or at least one or two deacons go with the wife to the hospital and, and talk with them, uh, and work with them and, and, and do whatever’s needed. To take care of these bills properly, North Hospitals will, will eliminate all, all, all the costs here, uh, other than the 80% that the, that the Medicare already covers. So again, I don’t think there’s going to be many, uh, bills here, but the wife is concerned because she doesn’t know this. The deacons need to know this. They need to be there. They need to help. Again, one day, an average stay in the hospital of 4 days is, is $15,000 or $20,000. But I, I believe you can get that down to near zero if the deacons work with the wife and the hospital to, uh, care for Bill and his wife’s needs here. So, uh, again, I think that’s another important aspect that the deacons have is just walking with them through these financial
Tim Hopper: issues and making sure they’re taken care of. As financial needs do arise though in a situation like this, if, if they become large, this is a great situation for contacting your presbytery diaconal committee. And the presbytery diaconal committee can also push those things up to the Committee on Diaconal Ministries. And both have funds available to help in these types of situations or, or have ways to, to get funds. So, you know, this is a great way for us to remember we’re Presbyterian and connectional, and our churches— our people don’t stand on their own, and our congregations don’t stand on their own either. You can reassure this couple that they’re going to be okay, they’re going to be taken care of.
Daniel Laskaz: In, in a smaller congregation, the accident would have come like the first or second day. Afterward, through the pastor, through the prayer chain, to please pray for this person because they’ve had an accident, and that would have alerted the deacons to be proactive in, uh, you know, in that situation. And, uh, so we, we have a, a prayer chain and people call, uh, quite often. Uh, we also use the, uh, another type of media where they go on there and put the prayer requests. So we, we get quite a bit that come through, uh, to alert us
Tim Hopper: of things of that nature as well. Shiloh is only a third of the size of Harvest, but we’re, we’re, uh, getting bigger and, um, big for an OP church. And something we’ve been trying to regroup on recently is dividing our congregation up among the deacons to where, um, every family unit has a deacon assigned to them. Um, mostly so that we can help, uh, avoid situations like this where people are falling through the cracks.— to where, you know, right now we each have, I think, something like 15 or 17 family units under us. And we’re trying to make sure that we, we don’t have to be totally responsible for everyone, but we’re knowing what’s going on with those people as much as we’re able. And I think that’s a good reminder, especially as the churches are growing over, you know, if you have 40 people, it’s different from if you have 200
Daniel Laskaz: people or 700 people. In some churches, uh, you have, uh, like one or two deacons and they’re working. So one of the things is other members are like our ears and our eyes to let us know what’s happening in people that, uh, in people’s lives that they do know and to, to,
Tim Hopper: to, to help us that way. Yeah, absolutely. We, we kind of have a running joke here that most diaconal needs are learned in the women’s bathroom through our wives. As the ladies talk about things, they often pass those things back to us, which is, is a huge asset. And it’s wise for us to remember to, to be aware that, you know, as, as others are able to bring
Bob Keys: things like that to you. We have a similar situation at Grace than you do here— there at Shiloh is we have shepherding groups and, uh, our deacons are, are located in, in one of the shepherding groups. So we really do track. The people in our group. And I think that really helps if once you get larger, you need a way to make sure you know who you’re responsible for. If you’re responsible for everybody, you’re responsible for nobody. And, and so I think it’s good that you, you really begin to focus your attention on, on people in your group, and, uh, and you, you meet with them and you know them and you encourage them, and you— and then you can bring that to the deacons meeting about your group and, and encourage and get wisdom as well. I mean, that’s why we have deacons meetings, is, is as much for for wisdom as a, as a group as we do individually. But again, uh, we at least have someone that’s taking care of the needs in the shepherding group and, and trying to address them right off the bat. But then the rest of the deacons are, are there to, to add support, wisdom, and encouragement. So yeah, I think that’s a, that’s a good model we’ve tried to use as well, Tim, and, and, uh, we found it to be at least somewhat
Tim Hopper: effective, uh, in, in, in our work. I think some big takeaways here are one, you know, just being aware, knowing when your people are out, having a relationship with people so that, you know, this woman feels comfortable going to a deacon or the pastor, somebody to let, let them know that this is happening. But also when you start to be involved, realize that this on the face of it appears to be a financial issue, but I think we’ve— as we’ve discussed— is not primarily a financial issue. It’s an issue of, of fear and uncertainty. And I think fear really in a, in a big way. And, uh, as we come into this, it doesn’t just need to be, oh, here we are with the checkbook, but here we are with the love of Christ and, uh, the hope that we can have even through, uh, tragedies like this, uh, and be able to reassure this couple and let them know that the Lord is with them and that he’s blessed them with deacons who love them and care for them in a church who love them and care for them. And with that also, I think as Bob was sharing, um, you know, if you’re able to, to know how to navigate some of these financial situations through hospitals, insurance, this kind of thing, uh, it can make a huge help to people, um, because these come up a lot and people don’t always know. Um, I think there is value in deacons arming themselves with knowledge, uh, or at least resources about how they can help in these kinds of areas. All right, let’s look at our last case. Vacation Bible School was well attended this year, and the pastor is excited for the new connections that were made with neighborhood families. He mentions one family in particular whose children came every day, and they attend a church nearby. The mother, Christine, is a single woman raising 4 children in a small government-subsidized housing facility. After speaking with Christine a few times, your pastor feels she may need to speak to a deacon. She has already spoken with the deacons at her home church but hasn’t gotten any aid. Christine’s daughter Esther’s birthday is coming up in a few weeks, and she doesn’t
Bob Keys: have any extra money to buy presents. This is one super case. I, um, I like these because they will give me a reason to talk to another church about diaconal ministries. And so I’m not talking about Christine right now, but, uh, we’ll talk about her later. But again, I can get involved with another church about diaconal ministry. I get to know them, get to know their deacons if they have them, get to know them as a church, what they believe, and begin to learn how I can work together with them for this woman Christine. So she’s involved in that church. I don’t want to necessarily at this point pull her away from this church. But again, there may be a lot that I can learn and do and be involved with another church that, uh, is hopefully preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ and biblical in most ways. And so again, I would see this an opportunity there as well as with Christine to start off with. So I would certainly get involved and begin a conversation with them about, about her and how we can work together to bless her and encourage her. And again, how many ways will this encourage not only Christine and her family but also the Church of Jesus Christ? So I— it’s, it’s a bigger picture here, I think, in this case than in many other cases. So, uh, that’s to start with. But again, then we talk about Christine. So I’ll let you guys talk about Christine, but, uh, I’d first go to
Lynn Hunter: the church and talk to them. I would agree, Bob, is this is a good place where we’re going to get church-to-church connection. They might not be Orthodox Presbyterian, but if they’re preaching the gospel, why would I want Christine to leave that church? Maybe this is a place where Harvest, because it’s so big and has resources, can help. Our best option might be to help funnel the money through that diaconate. Maybe that diaconate doesn’t have the same funds, so It gives me an opportunity to work with the church, but it also gives me an opportunity to work with Christine in what is the gospel, what did her children learn, did— you know, we are again looking at touching their lives. So they— this is one more fingerprint that they see of what the church does, um, not just their home church but another church around the corner. So this is where we get involved, and— but we stay in touch with that first church unless it’s not a gospel teaching church. That would be my only thing there, is if it’s not gospel teaching, uh, then we’re going to have some more talk. But again, it’s, it’s about the gospel and helping them move forward in the gospel.
Bob Keys: It’s also about the children. I, I, I think that is where I would focus my attention on, is, is that the children might see the Gospel of Christ. As you mentioned, Lynn, that is so— this is where it’s at. These kids are going to be influenced, and they are influenced. They’re going to— they’re going to Vacation Bible School and loving it. And so, uh, you know, this is just a— we’re right, right where it’s at, is, is we want to make sure that they see the love and the mercy of Christ Uh, from both churches if possible. And, uh, this is, um, huge in
Tim Hopper: the life of these young kids. Seems like the pastor has gotten to know this woman at least a little bit through the VBS, and I think it would be a good opportunity to, um, ask the pastor if he would go with you to try to visit with her in their home. And I think you can learn a lot through being in someone’s home and, and seeing what’s going on and talking to the family. And I think If the pastor or someone else has gotten to know her a bit, that’d be a good, uh,
Lynn Hunter: door opening to, to try to find out more.
Bob Keys: Oh, definitely. She has 4 kids and she’s alone. And, and I mean, this is, this is a hard situation. Don’t— I’m talking about— I mean, I haven’t talked about Christine, but she’s in a deep problem. Is she getting any financial support at all from her father, father children, right? I mean, this is critical. And, uh, you know, I, I don’t know, but this becomes a very difficult situation for any church and any deacon board with this kind of situation. But it, it, it’s a one of a great opportunity to minister the cause of Christ and, and the gospel. So, um, that’s what it’s about.
Tim Hopper: It’s about the gospel. That was our last case, brothers. Anything to add to any of these? Anything you’ve maybe thought of as the times passed that you’d like to add
Bob Keys: to any of these? I’m glad to hear, uh, that we all focus on Jesus Christ and the gospel. That to me is the most important thing. And, uh, if, if it doesn’t work out in some of these cases, which a lot of cases they don’t— I mean, especially ones that are outside the church like this last one, sometimes they really don’t— and yet if the children can see the gospel of Christ in our actions and the church actions, in the friendship and the encouragement and the love from the church, this can mean seeds in their lives for their hearts
Lynn Hunter: and minds in the longer term. One thing I would encourage from this last one is if you have a VBS, is the diaconate involved some way, either as teachers, helpers, just being there during the evening or morning if you can. Ours is in the evening, and just having us there, you can make that observation of the people coming in, whether they’re from the church or from the neighborhood. You can get that firsthand knowledge right up front. The other thing I would say is I got taught by an old pastor. I think he comes from Daniel’s area of the country, Ray Comaray. And when I was questioned in front of the session when I became a deacon, many years ago, he pounded into me, it’s not the elder’s job to always preach the gospel. It’s part of the diaconal job to go out and teach the gospel and help with the counseling and head that off right up front. And that is one thing we try to shape our diaconate around, is what is our responsibility to the gospel and
Tim Hopper: how do we do it. I think big picture from all of these is, is a good reminder and encouragement to me to be proactive as a deacon and not just wait for things to come your way, but to really know your people, to know their needs and, uh, build relationship and trust with them so that as needs arise, they’re, they’re going to be comfortable to, to speak with you. And it’s easy to be distracted by so many things and pulled in a lot of directions, but The Lord’s called us to, to know our flock, uh, his flock, and to, to care for them. I’ve thought several times in this discussion about, um, Van Dam’s book The Deacon. He talks frequently in there about how the deacon’s role is to care for the, the poor, the sick, and the lonely in the, in the body of Christ so that no one has to, to suffer under those unnecessarily. I think we see different pictures of that in these different case studies. And it’s a good framework for us to reflect through as we see our people. And, um, often— many times someone could be lonely, for example, uh, for, for reasons of their own making in many ways. And, uh, and often people can be poor for reasons of their own making, yet that doesn’t excuse us from seeking to, to serve them and know them and and walk alongside them. Uh, it’s a good, good reminder to me and encouragement to me to, to
Bob Keys: be proactive in that. Yeah, as I mentioned, loneliness is one of the, the largest problems we have in our society. It’s in the church as well. And I, I appreciate what you all men have said, uh, regarding the work of the deacon in regards to, to including loneliness in the church. And we, we don’t often talk about it, but There are so many lonely people in the social media world that we live in. We isolate ourselves and we don’t know one another. We don’t really care for one another. And the church should be so, so different than that. And it takes a lot of, of our strength and energy to make sure that we don’t have that. But that’s our job. And it’s about people, not about buildings and not about fixing the toilets. It’s, it’s about people. And praise God that we can spend our time in people, things that build the kingdom of God and that encourage others.
Tim Hopper: Amen. Well, I want to thank all three of you for discussing these cases with me today, and we thank our listeners, and we hope these discussions will be helpful to you as you serve in your local church. And if you enjoy these, uh, formats of these, uh, case studies, please let us know and we’ll consider doing more in the future.
Daniel Laskaz: Thank you, brothers.
Tim Hopper: Thank you.
Bob Keys: Was a pleasure being here.
Lynn Hunter: Thanks so much.
Tim Hopper: Thank you, Tim. My pleasure. Thanks for joining us. Go to our website, thereformeddeacon.org. There you will find all our episodes, program notes, and other helpful resources. And please make plans to join us again next month for another episode of
Bob Keys: the Reformed Deacon podcast. Sam.